Curse

Crippie its Tom · Nov 09, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

thanks for the sinway link. time to learn fow roles.

people will always try to clear an area in the fastest time possible. if you're just going to bitch about the way people play the game instead of enjoying whats given to you, then you have bigger problems than sf/obs/sb

Your welcome.

I don't mean to say that these skills should be nerfed/removed, I mean, I love running team split/speed builds, if not for the reward (I hosestly dont need more ingame stuff) but simply for fun. in UWSC my favorite role was mountains because I found it to be the most challenging and thus enjoyable for me.

I didn't mean for this to become a rage about SF/SB/OB thread and I supposed I should have written my original article with that thought in mind. I just meant to point out the fact that adding the skeletons and thus nerfing most of the farming builds that did NOT clear the underworld was not the solution.

Chocobo1 · Nov 09, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crippie its Tom

Your welcome.

I don't mean to say that these skills should be nerfed/removed, I mean, I love running team split/speed builds, if not for the reward (I hosestly dont need more ingame stuff) but simply for fun. in UWSC my favorite role was mountains because I found it to be the most challenging and thus enjoyable for me.

I didn't mean for this to become a rage about SF/SB/OB thread and I supposed I should have written my original article with that thought in mind. I just meant to point out the fact that adding the skeletons and thus nerfing most of the farming builds that did NOT clear the underworld was not the solution.

People tend to think the solution is infact nerfing all these skills, when in fact there is quite a bit more to think about than just nerfing a skill straight out.

Martin Alvito · Nov 09, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crippie its Tom

I didn't mean for this to become a rage about SF/SB/OB thread and I supposed I should have written my original article with that thought in mind. I just meant to point out the fact that adding the skeletons and thus nerfing most of the farming builds that did NOT clear the underworld was not the solution.

It never is. Changing Chaos Plains didn't kill UW farming; it just changed how people farmed. Adding Dying Nightmares just slowed people down. The list goes on.

There's nothing wrong with solo farming. It just shouldn't be so efficient that it crowds out other alternatives. Same for speed clears; there's nothing wrong with doing things quickly, but when a single approach is both efficient enough to crowd out alternatives and skilless, something should be done.

MIlkywayM16 · Nov 09, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

While we're on the subject, does anyone have any solution for a solo warrior farming in UW using the hundred blades build? It doesn't really work now that those skeletons are there.

Crippie its Tom · Nov 09, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

It never is. Changing Chaos Plains didn't kill UW farming; it just changed how people farmed. Adding Dying Nightmares just slowed people down. The list goes on.

There's nothing wrong with solo farming. It just shouldn't be so efficient that it crowds out other alternatives. Same for speed clears; there's nothing wrong with doing things quickly, but when a single approach is both efficient enough to crowd out alternatives and skilless, something should be done.

Before perma SF and ursanway, ectos dropped very slowly in prices. When these builds became popular, the prices dropped quite quickly. Nightmares were a good change, as was the change to the plains. Perhaps in a few months I'll look back and think that skeletons were one of the best things to happen to UW, but for now, they're not the solution.

@MIlkywayM16 We're not on the subject

Lishy · Nov 10, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I think it's fine as it is. The only true problem with UWSC is that it was overfarmed to the point of wrecking the design of Guild Wars. And now? They're nuked.
Until the remaining farms get as ridiculous as UWSC, I see no reason why it should be nerfed.

Shayne Hawke · Nov 10, 2009, 12:07 AM // 00:07

ANet really needs to stop beating around the bush and just hit the core of this issue already, ffs.

Trader of Secrets · Nov 10, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

During wintersday, skele-like creatures appear because of some awakening badass.

drkn · Nov 10, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

People tend to think the solution is infact nerfing all these skills, when in fact there is quite a bit more to think about than just nerfing a skill straight out.

just add signets removing enchants for skeles.

Chocobo1 · Nov 10, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

just add signets removing enchants for skeles.

Which not only hurts Shadow Form, but hurts any group that uses Enchantments.

Martin Alvito · Nov 10, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

And doesn't solve problems in FoW or EotN dungeons.

Crippie its Tom · Nov 10, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

I think it's fine as it is. The only true problem with UWSC is that it was overfarmed to the point of wrecking the design of Guild Wars. And now? They're nuked.
Until the remaining farms get as ridiculous as UWSC, I see no reason why it should be nerfed.

FoWSC Sinway hits ~15 mins. That's as ridiculous. Mobway can get under 30 still. Also ridiculous.

Lishy · Nov 10, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

True, but what could you get from FoW other than shards? Ectos drive the high end economy. And you can't get them in FoW. So FoW is pretty harmless, unless that is Obbi edge is suddenly the new ecto? It requires a conset, to my knowledge. And each person pays 1k on entry. So without ectos, you gaina significantly less amount than UW.

As insane as it might be, it doesn't make any game-breaking wrecks either.

Saph · Nov 10, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligo

Why don't they just remove these skills from the game entirely? Or /smiteboon and make them nonelites? I understand why SF should be nerfed, and I'm not against it completely. I do use it, but only as an advantage in farming. I'll be disappointed when it's nerfed, but I won't qq and quit, since there will be plenty of ways to farm. However, on the other two, you're getting pretty ridiculous. SB is SO far from "godmode"... 25sec duration and 45sec recharge is hardly permable. OF was given the 50% slower movement to balance the armor and invulnerability to spells. If you take away the armor or invulnerability to spells, this skill is pointless and may as well be removed from the elite list.

Also, I'd like to point out the obvious fact that you will NEVER be happy. You move from one 'meta' or 'op' skill or build to the next, crying relentlessly that it's imbalanced. Once SF is nerfed, what will you attack next? 600/smite, again? E/Me terras? How about instead whining constantly that it's not fair, you actually log on and play the game? We WILL NOT return to the 'balanced' team of a warrior tank and ele nukers. It's too slow. Plain and simple.

Couldnt have said it any better.

I have a feeling the same people complaining about SF, 600/smite, etc are gonna be the same ones Q.Q when ectos and other items skyrocket in price.

Caligo · Nov 10, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The movement penalty is easily negated with some combination of Essence, Rock Candy and Cupcakes. People are already eating Red Rocks; throw a Green Rock and a pair of Cupcakes at the problem and you're good for twenty minutes.

You can't honestly believe that it's fair to nerf an elite skill because an outside source improves it's originally intended effect... That's insane. You may as well claim that people with PCs that are better than the minimum requirements shouldn't be allowed to play.

AlsPals · Nov 10, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

To fix the problem with OF, just make the movement penalty concrete. The cons shouldn't effect it. Also, godmode is stupid, Nerf SF. Period. This has gone from amusing to almost questioning whether or not GW2 will suffer from a stupid stubborness. Then, a few more adjustments to UW and FOW to combat gimmicks, hopefully to promote build diversity, can be implemented. FINALLY, increase reward payout. The elite areas all have "chambers" with varying themes....chests for clearing that particular place would be nice...and no, not those stupid ass unlocked ones with horrible grapes.

byteme! · Nov 10, 2009, 02:14 AM // 02:14

It's been said many times over. You nerf SF and something else will take it's place. As history has shown we've been able to adapt and run times have ultimately gotten faster and faster.

Go ahead cry for nerfs. See how far that gets you.

X Dr Pepper X · Nov 10, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

1. Monsters are broken. Physical monsters in elite areas hit too hard to manage balancedway. Nuker mobs and attributes for monsters are OP 200+ AoE is imba. Monk monsters heal for too much to manage with steady stream of dmg from balanced team.

2. Design of entire elite area is poor. Non linear elite areas with bugged and static, predictable objectives. Same monster mobs with predictable skills, behaviors, and patrol patterns.

3. Invent gimmick. Ursan Blessing, Imbagon, 55/600 Smite duo, Shadowform. Pick your poison. Classes vamped for pvp (Mesmer, Sin, Rit) and poorly designed(Para, Derv) get little to no love except select gimmick builds that can be generically applied to almost any area due to the sheer intensity of how broken the build is (SF, Spirit spam, Imba)

4. Use unique properties of gimmick to abuse the design of an elite area and clear easily with little skill, thought, and time put into efforts. Buy consumables to make it even easier. Propagate bullshit amongst peers.

SF, OF, and SB are only the third step needed to abuse an elite area where nerfing them is the quickest easiest solution that does not address the core problem underlying speed clears.

Linear pathways thru elite areas should make it take longer even if a gimmick is used, reducing the need of a gimmick build. Mobs and monsters need to adjusted accordingly to promote balanced gameplay where each and every profession has an equal chance to participate in an elite area. Since these monsters are broken the need for a gimmick arises and takes priority over a balanced group. (How else to deal with a group of 10+ lvl 30 monsters pumping out 100-300 dmg each each couple of seconds w/o something that is also broken?)

Realistically UW, FoW, Deep, Urgoz should take 1-2 hours gimmick or balanced. DoA and slavers should take 3-5 hours but are able to be completed piece wise and progressively with rewards from chests and drops scaled accordingly.

There are more important things to do before a nerf to SF, OF, and SB are applied, and various nerfs to SF, OF, SB need to be applied. Anet just now realizes that due to pvp classes have been terrible in pve and are adjusting with pve/vp splits. However, that cannot apply to all classes where Sin, Mes, and Rit are very pvp oriented due to the lack of defense, AoE, and durability in pve or being outshined by other professions.
Dervish and paragons are excellent at what they do but are only used for very select builds to the point where nothing else becomes effective. They both need deep class reform.

Consumables only increase the problem allowing gimmicks to become more effective and even easier to pull off with the chance of failure being reduced.

So nerfing skills is not even the tip of the iceberg with so many issues at bay. Anet ignoring GW1 for GW2 doesnt help either b/c they figure GW1 is so broken they cannot continue with the same game.

Long winded amirite?

serinty hr · Nov 10, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polgara Val

Agree with you, people should seriously stop moaning about SF or 600 smiters, its quite simple ladies and gentleman if you dont like the skills dont use them. If some people enjoy a balanced type of group then find a group of friends and do it, if you like SF and many do, then do so.

Pol

exactly/closed

Xenex Xclame · Nov 10, 2009, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Im one of those person that were against UWSC and now we have MobWay i have no problem with it.One of the big reasons I didn't like UWSC is because of the speed it cleared with.

With MobWay time is increased a nice ammount, with skelies now in UW it also makes it so people cant just sleepwalk through the place which is also nice.

If FoWSC does get more used it does not matter I believe,FoW is nowhere near as hard as UW,you dont get mobs that hit you for 300+ damage,the time and work demand on the player side isn't that high.I highly doubt that the big part of the community would narrow their choices for a FoW just to save some time.